New Covenant Publications - A Counter Cult Ministry


2nd Orlando Church Open Forum Meeting



(Notes taken by a current member of the Atlanta Congregation)

Here are my notes from most of last night's meeting in Orlando. I stayed until 1:15 a.m. The meeting went until 6 a.m.

Open Forum 2/28/03 Orlando, FL

  • Open prayer.

  • Reading scriptures. Eph. 4.

  • Elder comments: lots of feelings, but we will stay together. We're going to follow Jesus. We're also going to grow up. We're going to leave the old behind. Encourage you to speak honestly. Say what's on your heart w/o fear. In your anger (ok to be angry), do not sin/no unwholesome talk. Matt. 18 applies, specific problems w/ individuals, speak to them first. If you've done that, go ahead. You talk; we hear. Things will change; we don't yet have answers; we'll develop those with your participation. We will apologize.

  1. We'll listen.

  2. We'll apologize.

  3. We'll work with you to implement changes. We do take this very seriously.


  • We were cowards. Did things we knew weren't right. We were asked to leave. Blessing from God. Always knew we'd come back. ___________ helped us. No longer bitter. I still need to see leaders who've led us apologize and understand need for real changes. And a real commitment to Bible teaching, not just propaganda. Freedom, revival.

  • Looking for right church. Priority on Bible study. Worship & prayer. Looks after its members. Growing. Saw these. Lot of attention before baptism. Stopped. Dating first thing. Brothers started telling me what to do with my house. Tried to strip me of all my independence. Have challenged false teaching. Submit or leave. Never agreed to accept this treatment. Respect is earned. God is demanding repentance. People not getting it. Improper training.

  • When 1 is accountable, other is not, relationship is doomed.

  • Feeling fear, of not measuring up, speaking up. Recon. Survived. Went through many leaders, then disciplers. Talks, told not to come back w/o visitors. Told to obey or leave. To leave = hell. Fear for my kids. Kingdom Kids no mercy; choose best kid. Common theme, performance based. Fear sins won't be extracted by roots. Can't treat disagreement like sin. No lateral change.

  • My journal...never good enough. Discipler lying to SL about me to make me look bad. Why invite friends to be miserable like me. Stopped putting up with it, but allowed it to happen to other people. Leaders meetings no fun. Absolute power corrupts. No more "let's just move on."

  • Feel afraid when I come to church. People dropped friend who was not ready for baptism. Felt completely manipulated, controlled. Called prideful. Told to cut my hair. Unsolicited advice. Lot of depressed members. Dating control.

  • Feel liberated. You (leaders) don't have a choice but to change...the people will no longer go along with false teaching. If HK hadn't come, would you have changed? You've herded, not shepherded. You've cut people out of the flock, not searched for the missing sheep. We've learned not to fight it. Pre-baptism, people are loving, then they're gone. We're not going back.

  • Full-Time staff used to live a modest life. Living now in the nicest homes, etc. Not living a sacrificial life. I've held back so many things.

  • Problem with giving. Night of my baptism, was called at home and asked how much planning to give. Felt policed re dating.

  • Does this mean we won't have convictions anymore?

  • Gave up, left. Coward. Value sincerity, people saying I love you, don't even know you. Forced to do stuff, no heart, can't make own decisions. Felt free after leaving. Leaders tell you what to do, don't know my name. One leader hung out, no one since. Labeled critical. Upper leaders good old boy's club. Felt like I was never doing enough. Leaders' kids taken care of, others not.

  • Pushed people to meet goals. Motivated by fear, anxiety. Seen some changes before HK. Fears going back.

  • Felt pressure, started for God, loving people, then found out about stats, etc. Leaders not willing to listen.

  • Growing up in as a Christian in the teens, very cliquish. Didn't get help. Fear. Not feeling loved. Felt unspiritual for thinking for myself. You need to believe in people. We don't have to be called and questioned. Not allowed to sing on stage because of weight.

  • Fear and intimidation, arrogance of leadership. LA leaders allowed this to occur. Just following orders is no excuse.

  • Too structured. Told to bring sharper people. Put into leadership too early, no training, hard discipling. I was never asked. Became a robot. Most of time unhappy. Spirit killed. No desire to bring people. Constant fear. Labeled 'weak'. Hated the legalism. God can choose others to be his remnant. We are the Pharisees. Be real.

  • Jesus' yoke is easy. But we've made it hard. ICOC dysfunctional, controlling. Church mutated. Told to leave because didn't make HOPE goal. Sector leaders delegate 90% of your responsibilities to members. Feel like I've been labeled, can't get rid of it.

  • Loving life 1st 7 months. Told if I confess the same sin 3x, I'm out.


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